A new challenging race

Cord · Post by **Cord** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:37 pm

disaster wrote:interesting idea, but lets modify it so that everything they have without a questprize flag goes poof when they die instead. something about the inherent magical nature of a quest prize can keep the item from dissapearing completely.

Hrm. My vote would be against this. If the player wants to use quest eq, that's fine - but they do so at their own risk. If we want a challange race, let's not pull any punches.

(Heck, I'd like to see it set up that when you die, not only do you lose your eq, but you get knocked down a level, too...)

Anakin · Post by **Anakin** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 5:42 pm

What about as you lower your xp (when you die) you eventually lose a level but this will mess up the death system as a whole. Oh well, like Illithids are not a challenge mob for me already. ^,^;

disaster · Post by **disaster** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:41 pm

hmmm....how about dying results in loss of a level, but not loss of the hp gained that level? an interesting idea...a VERY hard race ot level, but in terms of hp/mana, the largest potential....

Stars · Post by **Stars** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 7:52 pm

Cord wrote:(Heck, I'd like to see it set up that when you die, not only do you lose your eq, but you get knocked down a level, too...)

Ouch, man. You are more evil than I am. Having said that, I agree with you.

Anakin wrote:What about as you lower your xp (when you die) you eventually lose a level but this will mess up the death system as a whole.

We would never lose enough experience to lose a level. As it works right now, after death, we do not go lower than the experience we had when we started that level. So, you are right when you say the death/experience loss system would have to be changed.

Disaster wrote:hmmm....how about dying results in loss of a level, but not loss of the hp gained that level? an interesting idea...a VERY hard race ot level, but in terms of hp/mana, the largest potential....

Potential, shmotential...You are talking about making this "challenging" race omnipotent! Although, with the 1000 hp/mana/moves limit, then it doesn't really matter I guess.

On another note, since this new race would be unable to fly then we might see players actually spend enhances on movement points. *grins*

Anakin · Post by **Anakin** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:03 pm

The stat limit stops when you hero. How about when you hero and you die, you get a "Stars Cursed" where after this death (as a hero) you can't die anymore or you'll start over at level 1!

Stars · Post by **Stars** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 8:24 pm

Once again, someone who is more evil than I!
That might be just too cruel. I cannot tell you the frustration of having to start over because you die at level 100.

Cord · Post by **Cord** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:18 pm

disaster wrote:hmmm....how about dying results in loss of a level, but not loss of the hp gained that level? an interesting idea...a VERY hard race ot level, but in terms of hp/mana, the largest potential....

The trouble I see with this idea is that their are definetly some "good" levels to enhance, where gaining exp is easier relative to other levels. The person could enhance the maximum number of times, die, then enhance again.

Course, this would be a problem with my inital "loss of level upon death" idea, too...

Seems the only solution would be to set it up such that these creatures could not enhance. Being they are of a completely different substance and thus the trainer has no idea how to instruct them.

As for the idea of back to level 1 - the thought did cross my mind. But I think that would be too much. (As Stars can attest, even when being very careful it's quite easy to oops and end up dead.)

I'd suggest that, at level 51, things change up a little bit. You become better at holding your form, you gain some new skills. But with great achievements come great setbacks: dying at a level greater than 51 results in a lost of 5 levels instead of the usual 1.

Cord · Post by **Cord** » Mon Jul 07, 2003 11:40 pm

Now rethinking...

I think one thing we should try to keep in mind is keeping this new race as simple to implement as possible. Lord knows Slart has enough to do as it is.

My guess is that messing with the level system would definetly make this a harder race to create than otherwise.

So maybe, instead of a lost of a level, you have all your stats affected negetatively for X number of hours upon death, with the possiblity of these negative affects accumulating.

A simple ratio would be the level at which you died: die at level one, get a -1 stat affector across the board. Die at level 40, an -40 affector across the board. Die again at level 40 before the first affector has worn out, and now you've got two -40 affectors upon you. Just a thought. Might be easier to implement.

Oh, and I think these new guys should get fly. Mostly because trip (for mobs) really is powerful (namely, no fleeing), and after a certain level it seems like every last bloody mob has trip...

Ok, that's probably enough random babble from me for now. ;-)

Divebomb · Post by **Divebomb** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 12:44 pm

Have a taste of what it'd be like:

http://www.barrenrealmsmud.com/forum/vi ... .php?t=368

disaster · Post by **disaster** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 1:08 pm

i don't think they should get fly, but i do think that fly potions should affect them, as should see invis potions, invis potions, ect. maybe just for a portion of the normal time period, but i think they should be affected

Nyteshade · Post by **Nyteshade** » Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:01 pm

If I died at lvl 150 and went back to 1 I'd be mad at the world. .it wouldn't be pretty meteors of fire hitting the earth, flooding of land by the ocean, tidal waves blanketing islands yes I would do it in a heart beat *flex*

Oversoul · Post by **Oversoul** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 1:28 am

I think everyone who's in favor of this new race should try DB's quest (as he posted above). It's hard

Everybody · Post by **Everybody** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 12:40 am

I like this idea, in part because it does seem like it'd be easy to implement (new race bit, no skills, small bit of special code to keep their stats down/enhancing difficult/lose eq slots), and it would provide some of the challenge older players have been tending to be asking for. I wouldn't say it's something that needs to be done immediately, but I very much enjoy what I'm hearing about it.

Cord · Post by **Cord** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:02 pm

Participating in DB's quest has added some Perspective to this whole idea (punny, I know). Anyway, IMHO stuff:

First things first: it _is_ pretty challanging - even without any of the "extras" discussed on this thread...

If the same quest were run again after the 10 level limit code goes in, things would be a bit tougher. Particularily in the beginning, when gathering + to stat eq is crucial. However, I don't see this one being a show-stopper as far as levelling one of these mole creatures goes.

Loosing eq upon death would make things _significantly_ harder. Granted, you wouldn't have to find your corpse (*smirk*), but without + to stat eq or 10-and-below-spells spells killing _anything_ (by yourself) is
really tough stuff. That said, I'm still kinda partial to this idea. It would be tricky but I think ways to deal with it could be found.

Adding to that losing a level, however, I think would be too much. In DBs quest, every level gained is a precious thing, and something that took a good bit of work to gain. Losing it again with such ease would be incredibly frustrating. A temporary - to stats upon death might still be an acceptable difficulty, but coupling that with having to regather all the + to stat eq would probably be challange enough for dying without losing a level to boot.

The fact that these mole people are proposed to have a very limited skill set is also going to make things more difficult. I can really only speak for myself, but I expect that anyone doing DBs quest found themselves relying heavily on the skills of their particular race (as soon as they were able to practice them, that is). Not having them there... yeah, that would definetly have made things more tricky/time consuming.

Eliminating spell effects from items and/or pills would also make things a lot tougher. Not sure if that would be a fun one to do or not. Without red pills and having low con would make regen-ing hp quite the thing...

No grouping... that would have made things pretty hard too, but I don't think that's something we'd want to impose on this race.

Anyway, just thought I'd ramble for a bit on this thread to keep it going during/after DB's Outcast quest. :-)

Divebomb · Post by **Divebomb** » Mon Jul 14, 2003 7:56 pm

The fact that these mole people are proposed to have a very limited skill set is also going to make things more difficult. I can really only speak for myself, but I expect that anyone doing DBs quest found themselves relying heavily on the skills of their particular race (as soon as they were able to practice them, that is). Not having them there... yeah, that would definetly have made things more tricky/time consuming.

Wouldn't it just have been BORING? Why play a race where all you type is n,s,e,w,u,d,recall, and kill? No skills? Why bother?