These are anubis's rebuttals:
Anubis, I'm forwarding all the responses to your elf comments. If you'd
like, please respond with your answers. Then I'll have it all compiled into
one thing and let the heroes see it. Sound good?
Armageddon/Anubis/Generic's re-reply marked with //
Amystery's comments
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm all for changing them but I have a few notes. I've been pondering
devotion lately, and this seems to be similar. I'd suggest making devotion
alignment based for BR with bless, armor and some beneficial evil spell
being saintly, neutral and satanic respectively.
* Mordenkainen's Sword: Caster not wielding a weapon now attacks as a
warrior with a weapon of the same lvl, hit roll of twice lvl, and some
damroll that's decently good.
Love it. Would have to make it good enough to offset the not using a weapon,
or make it cast able in battle. maybe if the caster had only one weapon they
could still use this spirit weapon.
*Hold Person: The thing that has this cast on it is unable to move/attack
for a certain amount of time, can be directed in a direction like throw.
Love it. It should stop an aggro mob from attacking also, but if the spell
wears off the mob should instantly attack, after all, I would if I'd been
held against my will.
*Mass Hold: Same thing as hold, but affects all enemies in area.
Interesting idea. make it all enemies in the room, cast able during battle?
*Polymorph Other: Caster gains 1/2 experience normally recieved for a kill
if this occurs, subject is turned into some small woodland animal that is
really weak.
I could have so much fun with this spell...
*Prismatic Spray: a 1/7 chance each of the following : little bit of damage,
some damage, a lot of damage, is poisoned, polymorphed, goes insane and
attacks a random person in room (including itself), sent to another plane
(bamf, except caster gets some xp for the act) this is an area attack.
Sounds like fun, especially with the addition of prismatic sphere.
*Prismatic Sphere: a giant immobile sphere appears in the room for a while
and only the caster can enter it. All mobs attacking the caster through the
sphere suffers from prismatic spray.
Make it like mental barrier, lasts a round and hits as many times as the
caster would have been hit.
*Earthquake: Deals damage to non-flying units on the ground in room and
adjacent rooms.
Fine, fix that bug in earthquake.
*Cone of Cold: Deals a moderate amout of non-variable damage, can be
directed in a direction like throw.
An elven throw, ok
*Meteor: Think of this as a REALLY big fireball area affect that can only be
cast from outside, can be directed in a direction like throw.
I'm assuming outside means rooms flagged as outside. Sure, this has a nice
image of a meteor hitting the caster and a ring of fire exploding out from
the caster
*Mana Nova: Caster determines the amount of mana to spend, and it deals a
corresponding amount of damage to all mobiles in room and adjacent rooms.
(no direction setting)
I really like this in the sense that you can set the amount of mana to
expend. I'm not sure its wise to hit all the mobs in adjacent rooms. That
could get ugly very fast. maybe hit one random mob in a random direction
plus the normal area attack.
*Blizzard: Outside thing, turns wheather really bad, then things start to
get hit by the blizzard (cone of cold type damage, look at meteor shower)
Why would you use this instead of Meteor? Seems like it has the bad weather
downside. If it did more damage than meteor I can see it as useful:)
//I just thought I'd throw in a bunch of spell choices. Perhaps something to
balance out speed vs. damage, etc.
*Lightning Stom: Think lots of lightning bolts that's somewhat powerful
damage varies a lot... outside only
Nice image. I could see this working inside too.
*Meteor Shower: Errrr.... Lots of meteors hit a room and all adjacent rooms
perodically for a while... outside
Interesting. Same comments as Mana Nova.
//this one is more random, I was thinking that it could damage caster as
well because it is so powerful that it's hard to gain a full control over
it. same with mana nova.
*Raise Dead: Caster is able to raise from corpses of mobs skeleton warriors
that have 1/2 hp of the mob did. Assists caster in battle (non group),
caster gets xp of kills by minions. Number of minions depends on lvl of
caster.
I like!
*Vampiric Touch: Just that. Deals some damage...
Can it return some health/mana to the caster?
//that was partially why I named it vampiric, yeah.
*Raise Dead Mastery: Minions get better...
How much better? 3/4 hp?
//The details have to be worked out to see just how good these minions are,
and how much better we want to make them. possibly "beta test?"
*Ressurection: Minions are now weaker versions of the mobs themselves...
better than skel.
How much stronger? I like the idea just want to know more numbers.
//diddo
*Powerword Kill: Can you say "insta-kill"? (Chance of misfire and dealing
back to caster damage b/c of overexertion into the shadow plane)
But no destruction like disintegration?
//I was thinking that this just sucked the life-force out of the friggin
thing. *bam* it's gone, either that or a big demon pops up and swallows the
caster lol.
OK, those are my ideas for elves and elf skills. Of course, elves should be
restriced more on str and not be able to use heavy armor and weapons, that
way they'll be more of actually mages.
This goes along with my suggestion of changing the max stats for the races,
let elves max at 18, dwarves at 30.
//I like that, esp. b/c it would make my magical sword spell more
worthwhile.
> Overall, the proposed plan for elves look very cool. I'd like to see
> something like that go in. A few questions though. Does the player chose
> what type of elf to play when they create the character, or is it
determined
> by the character alignment as they play? Also, I like the new spells, but
> I'd like to see a wholly original set of new names for most, if not all of
> them. As they are now, it seems a little too "borrowed" from DnD. I'll
> pass on any other worthwhile comments as they come to me...
>
> -faustus
//I was thinking of perhaps a semi-generic set of spells for the elves till
lvl 10. At that time, it takes their alignment, and they have to go to a
special diety/guild or whatever to attain higher spells dependent on align.
once you get one spell of one align, you can't get spells of other aligns
and you stick with what you have. I don't care about names at all. Name them
whatever people like.
Elric's comments
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I've looked over Anubis' suggestions and have to admit that most of them
make me nervous. Obviously it's good to have an assortment of new skills
available to elves, but I have to object to breaking them up.
>
>
>
> Do we really need 3 different classes of Elves? Ok, we is a loose term
since I'm not around much ever, but does BR need to split elves into 3
classes. Alignment, at least in the days when I was playing, tends to
fluctuate somewhat massively. Would we remove access to say, the conjurer
skills - Mordenkainen's Sword, Hold Person, Polymorph - if they become
neutrally or evilly aligned. I know that something similar was considered
for the remort - demons and angels classes, but they were intended for a
whole different class of player. Can we expect players to have to adhere
that strictly to maintaining an alignment?
>
>
//In my opinion, all mages/spellcasters require a certain quality of player
to play effectively. That goes for almost any fantasy game I've ever
encountered. Mages should start off weak, but become god-like in the end.
Warriors go around and kill whatever they want because they depend on
themselves for their power. Mages and priests are different, they depend on
nature, the elements, and gods. What if these things get pissed at them?
Then they don't have squat. I think that having a dif. alignment could
weaken your spells, etc. or we could have them not be able to cast their
spells on creatures of a certian alignment. (and duke it out like the
fighters). Or possibly their spells are taken way if they stray from their
diety.
>
> That sums up most of my objections right there actually. The only other
thing I want to bring up is something I'm sure you've considered. BR isn't
an AD&D type MUD, it never has been. If you are to link it to a tabletop,
pen and paper type gaming it would be to D&D - the very first one before
they started putting edition numbers on it. BR has always been different -
a family MUD that has done something different with the standard MERC races.
Since BR has been around for greater than 5 years, it would be a shame to
suddenly start conforming to gaming conventions that are used by the world
at large. Let BR remain the unique entity it is.
>
>
//I've always been a die-hard DnD fan. I'm sure there are lots of other
people out there too. In my opinion, DnD is mainly the originator for the
role-playing genere. EVERY rpg I've played has DnD elements, whether it be
hitpoints, or damage rolls. There are some innovations such as mana points,
etc. I think that a game should innovate and be creative, but not if it
hurts the enjoyment of playing it (ie: if all the races are really similar
in how they are played). I just named spells after similar DnD spells
because I like DnD. They can be named whatever people like. I have no
objection to name changes, or even changes in effects. I just wanted to
throw out some innovative ideas that I thought would make BR more enjoyable.
>
> Again, while I love the idea of providing new spells for Elves, I think
trying to split the Race into 3 sub-races would be of minor, if any
improvement to the gameplay of the MUD.
>
>
>
> Joe/Elric
//Elves represent spellcasters/mages in general in the land of BR. I though
I'd split them up because not all spell-casters are the same. Neither are
all elves the same.
>From Divebomb
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> my comments start with ***
>
> >Elves: ok, this is what I have planned for elves. I decided to have them
branch off an follow dif. gods of good, evil, and neutral for their spells.
That way, there will be balanced diversity even inside one race.
> >
> >I tried to be true to TSR and AD&D (The gods of roleplaying) Here are my
3 elf specialties:
> >note: None of these are healers or priests, that's for the druids ; )
>
> ***I love the idea of alignment oriented elves. Where there abilities
change like the use of death field on illithid. It's like putting in the
alignment option you do for AD&D without actually asking for it.
//
>
> >Conjurer/Enchanter: algn good
> >desc: These spell casters generally cast spells which in one way or
another aid or hinder a player or monster.
> >
> >ALL Spells and skills available for conjurers.
> >
> >Lv Spells
> >
> > 1: burning hands create spring magic missile
> ***magic missile doesn't fit here. We can let burning hands go because it
"affects the caster by enflaming his hands" - and an elf needs some sort of
attack at low levels
>
> > 2: detect invis detect magic
> > 4: continual light faerie fire invis
> > 5: bless
> > 6: infravision locate object
> > 7: enflame weapon fly giant strength weaken
> > 8: acid blast blindness teleport
> >10: faerie fog identify web
> >11: armor colour spray
> >12: enchant weapon dodge
> *** dodge neither hinders enemies nor helps a fellow player and does not
fall under the description. Played D&D/TSR games? If your mage tries to
fight anyone in hand to hand combat, they get their asses kicked so fast you
don't know what happened. I would like to see this in a mage-style character
(no dodge no parry).
//There's some stuff I missed. Also, I wanted a generic set of low lvl
abilities shared by all the elves in general. I thought elves were pretty
agile, so why not dodge?
> >13: control weather energy drain shield
> >14: charm person sleep
> >15: fireball mass invis
> *** take fireball out of here - it should be in the elemental area only
//I sort of saw fireball as generic since the other races all had it. Sure,
make it elemental.
> >17: stone skin
> >18: pass door
> >25: frenzy *Mordenkainen's Sword
> >26: dispel magic
> >30: *Hold Person *Polymorph
> >33: plague
> >35: *Prismatic Spray *Mass Hold
> >40: create potion
> >48: *Pristmatic Sphere
> >51: astral
> >65: firm grasp
> >80: multiattack
> >
> >spells with * are new and have descriptions
> >*Mordenkainen's Sword: Caster not wielding a weapon now attacks as a
warrior with a weapon of the same lvl, hit roll of twice lvl, and some
damroll that's decently good.
> *** I would rather see this as a spell i've seen before called "flame
sword" - more generic too. The mage creates a sword of fire and can wield it
as long as both hands are free. It is considered melee combat and works just
as a regular sword would. Hitroll of twice level and damroll equal to level
would be acceptable. Not bad if you lose your weapon mid fight, but not
really outstanding either - balanced.
//I'm not into details, sry
> >*Hold Person: The thing that has this cast on it is unable to move/attack
for a certain amount of time, can be directed in a direction like throw.
> ***unable to move or attack seems a bit much. Perhaps unable to flee or
disarm you (kind of like what a real trip would do). Think of it as an
upgrade to web
> >*Mass Hold: Same thing as hold, but affects all enemies in area.
> ***Too powerful in my opinion.
//I was thinking a break in battle to quaff some grails, or maybe to regain
your mind after reading a million lines of battle text. It could also be a
nice prep spell, soften up the enemy before he can start attacking. Maybe if
you attack or get too close it breaks up the effect of the spell.
> >*Polymorph Other: Caster gains 1/2 experience normally recieved for a
kill if this occurs, subject is turned into some small woodland animal that
is really weak.
> ***would have to be the start of a fight and a low chance, but it's clever
with the 1/2 xp for it
//I thought it would be funny. esp in the arena
lol
> >*Prismatic Spray: a 1/7 chat each of the following : little bit of
damage, some damage, a lot of damage, is poisoned, polymorphed, goes insane
and attacks a random person in room (including itself), sent to another
plane (bamf, except caster gets some xp for the act)
> ***i dont like the idea of chances of polymorphed and bamf'd having equal
chances. I would also change teh "insane" part to randomly attacking anyone
in the room and affected by berzerk.
//whatever, I stole this from DnD because I thought these were the coolest
spells ever in all the campaigns I've been in.
> >this is an area attack.
> >*Prismatic Sphere: a giant immobile sphere appears in the room for a
while and only the caster can enter it. All mobs attacking the caster
through the sphere suffers from prismatic spray.
> ***sounds like a you-attack-me, i-attack-you spell. Which is cool.
>
>
> >Here's my fav:
> >Invoker: This is a neutral elemental mage. yeah, pure damage ; )
> >
> >ALL Spells and skills available for elves.
> >
> >Lv Spells
> >
> > 1: burning hands magic missile
> > 2: detect invis detect magic
> > 4: invis
> > 6: infravision locate object
> *** no locate object, doesnt fit the "pure damage". Invis and infravision
do because of their ability to deal with the enemy
>
> > 7: enflame weapon fly shocking grasp
> > 8: teleport
> > 9: lightning bolt
> >10: identify
> >12: call lightning
> >13: control weather energy drain
> >15: fireball
> >16: *(Modified) earthquake
> >18: pass door
> >25: frenzy *Cone of cold
> >26: dispel magic
> >30: *Meteor *Blizzard
> >40: *Mana Nova *Lightning Storm
> >45: *Meteor Shower
> >51: astral
> >65: firm grasp
> >80: multiattack
> >
> >*Earthquake: Deals damage to non-flying units on the ground in room and
adjacent rooms.
> *** only if it pisses em off and causes non-sentinels to come into the
room and fight you. If you kill a mob in an adjacent room you shouldn't get
xp for it.
> >*Cone of Cold: Deals a moderate amout of non-variable damage, can be
directed in a direction like throw.
> >*Meteor: Think of this as a REALLY big fireball area affect that can only
be cast from outside, can be directed in a direction like throw.
> *** this one i like, especially with the conditions
> >*Mana Nova: Caster determines the amount of mana to spend, and it deals a
corresponding amount of damage to all mobiles in room and adjacent rooms.
(no direction setting)
> *** interesting but strange, im not sure i like it
//I was thinking of how to give the caster some control over how much damage
he/she wanted to deal. Really powerful mages should be able to do a lot more
than a punny one, even if they cast the same spell. I thought mana would be
a nice way to determine it. If you put everything you've got in one shot, it
should hurt.
> >*Blizzard: Outside thing, turns wheather really bad, then things start to
get hit by the blizzard (cone of cold type damage, look at meteor shower)
> *** how about can only be used when outside and snowing - does more damage
than meteor - does not automatically change weather
//sure, it could also adversely affect party members if it goes out of
control. You shiver and freeze.
> >*Lightning Stom: Think lots of lightning bolts that's somewhat powerful
damage varies a lot... outside only
> *** same type of restrictions, let the elf do damage depending on the
current weather state.
//Aren't brids (flying objects) and things in/around water susceptible to
lightning? More damage in the air, around water, etc. Weather restrictions,
whatever. It could also just change the weather by itself. Maybe might go
haywire (people in metal armor might not like electricity)
> >*Meteor Shower: Errrr.... Lots of meteors hit a room and all adjacent
rooms perodically for a while... outside
> ***just make this or meteor the equivalent of lightning storm and blizzard
except in hot/windy conditions
> ***The best thing about the neutral elves is their ability to initiate a
battle from a distance (the throw-like spells). THAT pertains to the D&D/TSR
style and it rocks as an idea.
//I like not having to succumb to the lowly toe-to-toe fighting fighters
have to do.
> >
> >
> >I like my idea for the evil one too... grin
> >Necromancer:
> >Evil spell caster that raises mobs from dead:
> >
> >ALL Spells and skills available for elves.
> >
> >Lv Spells
> >
> > 1: burning hands magic missile
> > 2: detect invis detect magic
> > 3: chill touch
> > 4: invis
> > 6: infravision locate object
> > 7: enflame weapon fly weaken
> > 8: acid blast blindness teleport
> >10: identify
> >11: colour spray
> >12: dodge
> *** eliminate dodge here too for the same reason on the good elves.
> >13: energy drain
> >15: fireball
> >18: pass door sneak
> >20: *Raise Dead
> >25: frenzy *Vampiric Touch
> >26: dispel magic *Raise Dead Mastery
> >33: plague *Ressurection
> >45: *Powerword Kill
> >51: astral
> >65: firm grasp
> >80: multiattack
> >
> >*Raise Dead: Caster is able to raise from corpses of mobs skeleton
warriors that have 1/2 hp of the mob did. Assists caster in battle (non
group), caster gets xp of kills by minions. Number of minions depends on lvl
of caster.
> *** like a pet that you can't equip (should recall and teleport with
player)
//yeah, it should fallow you around even when you recall, tp, etc. either
that or get destroyed b/c the magic becomes out of range.
> >*Vampiric Touch: Just that. Deals some damage...
> *** should be an energy drain - maybe this instead of energy drain.
Vampiric touches tend to draw life away from the victim and give it to the
caster.
//yeah, vamp=drain and give to caster. sorry for not writing this in the
desc.
> >*Raise Dead Mastery: Minions get better...
> >*Ressurection: Minions are now weaker versions of the mobs themselves...
better than skel.
> ***this would be awesome
>
> >*Powerword Kill: Can you say "insta-kill"? (Chance of misfire and dealing
back to caster damage b/c of overexertion into the shadow plane)
> *** an insta-kill backfiring would kill the caster. If you really want to
give an insta-kill (the player would have to be evil - an uncommon trend)
then you probably want to bamf and curse the player instead of dealing
damage. That would make them think twice about using it freelance style
//hehe, you get swallowed by a big demon. curse, bamf, blind for 10 tics?
lol. or it could just deal some damage to you.
>
> >
> >
> >
> >OK, those are my ideas for elves and elf skills. Of course, elves should
be restriced more on str and not be able to use heavy armor and weapons,
that way they'll be more of actually mages. Thanks for taking my ideas kiri!
: )
> >
>
-Anubis
>
> ***I think Anubis's ideas are great and with some refinement this would be
an extremely interesting change to BR and to the elves. He did a good job
keeping to TSR/D&D style and it should/would make the results great.
> DB
