Barren Realms MUD

I must say that the Humans are very cool, (not as cool as Avians thou ^^, Dio) but I thought of a new skill that will make them even cooler.
Maybe someone else already have suggested something like this but I will also in that case.

Drunken Master
This skill should work either like a passive skill that only is active when a human is drunk, or as a syntax that adds a series of hits on the foe (randomly).

ex:

You straighten your fingers and jab them into the drug addicts eyes, the fingers MUTILATES a drug addict and he screams in pain as he cannot se.

You jump up on your hands, spread your legs and starts to spin ...several kicks... (well got that from Tekken 3 )

You jump up in the air, make a loop and CREM a drug addict over the head.

You punch the drug addict in his stomache, and stunns him for 2 rounds.

You walk drunkily around your foe, kicks him in the back and he falls flat on his face!

...?

Offcourse the more drunk you are the better this skill would work. But it makes it harder to get to the foe

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Another thing I think should be changed about the humans are dual. Remove it !!! and give humans bonuses for fighting unarmed and maybe fighting with a two-handed sword. How many martial artists are dual-wielding?

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Please tell me if you like my ideas and/or have other suggestions
and excuse my crappy english for I'm just a stupid Swede!

______
Croplin
-The first swede to register, yeah!

There's only one thing I would like a human to have: Disarm.

Hey some martial artist use dual arnis (sp?).

EB needs to repost his human outline.

SLIST:
* changed or new (added) skill/spell
! indicates styles
? indicates possibly (probably) changing skills/spells

2: karate*!
2: kung fu*!
3: five style fist
3: aikido*!
3: kendo*!
4: kick
4: arnis*!
5: concentrate*
5: senjutsu*
6: judo*!
6: juttejutsu*!
6: shotokan-ryu*!
7: laughing buddha
7: krav maga*
7: pachigi*
7: tai chi chuan*!
8: throw
8: hsing i chuan*!
8: hapkido*!
9: medicine
9: penchek*!
9: wushu*!
10: buddha finger?
10: roundhouse
10: tae kwon do*!
11: prayer
11: 1000 palms
11: hoho jutsu*
12: sambo*!
12: gensei-ryu*!
12: fari gatka*!
13: chin kang palm?
13: dodge
13: detect invis
13: capoeira*!
14: iron palm*
14: shurikenjutsu*!
14: praying mantis*!
15: iron monk
15: dual
15: muay thai*!
15: pa kua*!
16: identify
16: itto-ryu*!
16: muto-ryu*!
18: iaido*!
19: fly
19: ninjitsu*!
20: parry
20: giant strength
20: kuji kiri*
21: meditation*!
21: kuk sool won*!
22: word of recall
22: drunken monkey*!
23: bushidokan*!
24: kiai jutsu*
24: krabi krabong*!
25: pass door
27: kempo*!
30: niten ichi-ryu*!
35: dispel magic
40: jeet kun do*!
45: quivering palm?

Removing:
cure light, cure serious, cure blindness, magic missile, know alignment, burning hands, cause light, fireball, earthquake, call lightning, colour spray, lightning bolt

I'd be willing to add most/all of these back in, depending on how much ability to multi-class via oog skills/spells we want to leave in.

Replacing (styles or new skills/spells make up for the loss of these):
refresh, sneak, trip, headbutt, infravision, bless, frenzy, armor, shield, stone skin, blindness, faerie fire, web, weaken

(sidenote: I use the word "scaling" a lot in this. By it, I mean the amount that the spell/skill affects <whatever> changes based on the player's level. Most of the time, negative affects will scale down (become worse), and positive affects will scale up (become better.))
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ALTERED COMBAT ABILITIES:
My most major change for humans would be to make an unarmed Human (wielding no weapons, but with a shield, if desired), to do approximately equivalent damage as if they were wielding weapons of the appropriate level.
Specifically, a bare-handed human would get hit/dam bonuses of +1/+1 for every 5 levels they are, starting at +1/+1, for each empty hand they're currently fighting with, as well as deal damage as though they were wielding a weapon of their level. The hit/dam bonus is somewhat less than the average hit/dam bonus of wielding a weapon in each hand at a comparable level. The extra damage dealt would be equivalent to the average damage field associated with weapons right now. Obviously, they wouldn't be able to get the extra hit/dam bonus for their offhand until after they practiced dual.
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ALTERED SPELLS:
CONCENTRATE: This would become a human variety of detection spells. Basically, by concentrating on their surroundings, a human can pick out that other people are around, and aren't hindered so much by darkness. Thus, this would be detect presence and infravision. However, because of the concentration involved in using it, it would have some combat penalties associated with it (-hit/-dam, slowly scaling... I'm imagining something like -5/-5 at level 50).
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NEW SKILLS/SPELLS:
HOHO JUTSU: This literally involves tying/restraining of people with rope or cord. So, this would be the human's version of web, probably with some additional benefits: slowly scaling +ac & -hitroll effects. I'd like for this spell to require the player to have a specific item (as taint does) in their inventory for it to work.

IRON PALM: By repeatedly hitting very hard things, a human can make his hands as tough as iron. This would be a slowly scaling +damroll spell. However, I'd like it to only work when the human was fighting barehanded, and have it do some (small) amount of damage to the human when initially cast.

KIAI JUTSU: This is based on the idea of the kiai (shout) channeling the shouter's energy to paralyze or otherwise detrimentally affect the opponent. I'd like this to do two different things, depending on whether the mob saves vs. spell or not. That would be - blind the mob if it fails its save, or just cast weaken on it if it makes it. Make the save fairly easy to make (easier than blind's save) to reduce the power of the skill.

KRAV MAGA: Krav Maga is actually a style that focuses on survival in street situations. In game terms, this would be a -save vs. spell affecting spell.

KUJI KIRI: Ninjas would use elaborate finger motions to try and hypnotize opponents. So, this skill would just cast a version of sleep. I'd prefer it if this "version" was an attack (unlike sleep itself)

PACHIGI: This is actually a style that uses a lot of headbutts in it. As I couldn't think of anything particularly cool to actually do with that idea, this is a replacement for headbutt. I'd like to see it slowly scale to make it somewhat more useful than headbutt is.

SENJUTSU: Deals with battle tactics and awareness in combat. This as a renamed bless or combat mind spell.
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STYLES:
So I've accepted the idea of Styles as an interesting and useful way of changing Humans. Specifically, you could have one style on at a time (and it would cost mana, perhaps %-wise as track does, or perhaps just a straight cost), but it would be a skill, and would stay on until you either used a command ("relax" perhaps) to drop out of the style, or used another style. The styles would be delineated into three main categories: Strict nonweapon, Nonweapon, and Weapon styles (more about these categories when they're introduced).

Styles should work either randomly (properly sometimes, negatively others) or not at all if the character is drunk. They should depend on clarity of mind. I'd be for not at all, because that would be easier to code, but randomly might be a little more thrilling, especially if you couldn't tell by looking at the affects list. (from Slart, but I agree with it)

Another possibility for limiting (balancing) the more powerful styles is to have a movement cost associated with maintaining the style. i.e. powerful styles would cost the human a lot of movement every tick (not combat round) to maintain, and when they don't have enough movement to maintain the style, anymore (showing the human is too tired to fight like that anymore), the style would dissipate. This same idea could be put in using mana instead of movement, as well, although I prefer movement. Obviously, the lowest level/least powerful styles should have no maintenance cost, but the more powerful would have rather larger costs associated with maintaining it.

I'd like to see about half of the styles scale to one extent or another. Because only one style could be on at a time, players wouldn't be able to stack bonuses like you can with other races' spells. Thus, a lot of these styles will probably appear overpowered. Additionally, scaling styles will continue to be more useful (and thus more used) for longer than one that only gives a constant bonus.
(A * before the style name indicates that it's one I feel should definitely scale.)

These are arranged in categories, subdivided between offensive, defensive, and non-combative styles in the category, then by what level the character gets the style.
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STRICT NONWEAPON STYLES:
Practitioners can only enter these styles while totally unarmed (wielding no weapons). If the character then wields a weapon while in the style, the style dissipates.

JUDO STYLE: A somewhat basic offensive style, judo emphasizes grappling and locks that control your opponent's moves. Because of that, characters using judo style reduce the opponent's ac while fighting them. So, overall, humans in this style would get: (constant) +hitroll, (scaling - ala faerie fire, auto) +ac to their opponents, and (auto) trip.

*TAE KWON DO STYLE: Tae Kwon Do emphasizes kicks over anything else, with specific emphasis on hitting vital/disabling points on your opponent. Characters in this style would have the damage done by the kick attacks (kick and roundhouse) increased by a (slowly scaling) multiplier. Offset this some by also including a (scaling) +ac modifier.

CAPOEIRA STYLE: A highly acrobatic style that is part dance and part martial art. A character in this style should (auto) trip, and get (scaling - ala giant strength) +dex.

*MUAY THAI STYLE: One of the more aggressive styles of martial arts around, I'd like to see this style get some hefty hit/dam bonuses, but take extra damage on every attack the opponent lands. Specifically: (scaling) +hit/+dam at 2/2 per 5 levels, while getting (scaling) +ac, and taking 10% extra damage at start, scaling up to 30% at avatar. That would approximately double the "weapons" damage of an unarmed human - not the total damage done, only that from their weapons. The +ac modifier is to represent the added aggressiveness of this style.
Special exemption from the strict nonweapon code... if Krabi Krabong Style is practiced and the character using Muay Thai equips weapons, we essentially switch over to that style, and vice versa. Only reason to have two styles for this is to allow them to be learned at different levels.
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AIKIDO STYLE: A basic style, focused on redirecting attacks, this would give (auto) trip and (constant) -ac.

HAPKIDO STYLE: Something of an upgrade to Aikido, characters in this style would get (slowly scaling) -ac, and (constant, low) +hit/+dam. No trip.

*PENCHEK STYLE: This style is focused on avoidance and not getting hit. Because of that, characters in this style would get (scaling) -ac, (constant) +dex, and another parry/dodge skill (evade?) that would kick in while in this skill. To balance, neither five style fist nor 1000 palms would work while in this style.

*BUSHIDOKAN STYLE: This style is highly into counterattacking. Practitioners will never truly make the first move. So, humans in this style would gain an (auto) counter-attack on every parried/dodged attacked (if this is too powerful, reduce it to one a round). This counter-attack would deal a (scaling) %age of the human's normal attack strength and would be unparriable/dodgeable. To counteract this, the player would do severely less damage on their normal attacks: (scaling) -hit/-dam, starting at -20/-20 - perhaps have this be a %age of their "normal" hit/dam, instead, though. As for the auto-counter, I'd start it around 1/10th normal damage, and have that amount scale up to full damage (or possibly more than full).
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MEDITATION: By calming and centering themselves, humans can drastically reduce how tired they are, as well as refocus their inner power. In this style, humans would have increased mana and movement recovery speed, however still not as fast as being drunk & sleeping. As this takes a lot of concentration, a (scaling, fairly large) -hit/-dam affect would also be applied. This style works (like other styles) only when non-drunk.
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NONWEAPON STYLES:
These styles are based around barehand attacks, but include weapons training in them. As such, humans can be barehanded or wielding weapons while entering the style, and losing or wielding new weapons doesn't kick them out of it.

KARATE STYLE: A basic offensive styles. A character in this style has learned the basics of "hard" martial arts. So, they gain: (constant) +hitroll, (constant) +ac.

ARNIS STYLE: Another basic style. Gain: (auto) trip, (constant) +hit/dam, (constant) +ac.

SHOTOKAN-RYU STYLE: Upgrade of Karate style, one of the most popular schools of Karate: (slowly scaling) +hit/+dam, (slowly scaling) +ac.

GENSEI-RYU STYLE: This school of Karate focuses more on rolls and evasions than the other two. Upgrade #2 of Karate style: (slowly scaling) +hit/+dam, lower start point than shotokan.

SAMBO STYLE: An advanced form of judo that incorporates weapons training and nastier holds, this style is fairly aggressive. Since this style of fighting is very much a "use everything that works or lets you get ahead," and has a lot of "dirty" fighting in it, characters in this style would get: (auto) trip, (scaling - ala faerie fire, auto) +ac on opponents, (auto) dirtkick, and (slowly scaling) -hit/+dam.

*PRAYING MANTIS STYLE: An extremely aggressive style, practitioners simply take hits instead of trying to block them, then respond with a high-power pummelling. As such, users in this style shouldn't be able to parry (if we can code that), but get (scaling, fairly high) +damroll.

*DRUNKEN MONKEY STYLE: The practitioner of this style of martial arts resembles a drunk monkey (thus the name), which allows him to surprise his opponents by pulling off seemingly unfeasible attacks. Characters in this style would get: (constant - ala protection, or less) damage reduction, (scaling) +hitroll, and the ability to be drunk while in the style. The damage reduction comes from the ability to roll with attacks, the hitroll from the surprising aspect of the attacks of this style.

*KEMPO STYLE: Technically based off of Karate, this is a more defensive style, that focuses on hitting nerves and other disabling points on its targets. As such, characters in this style hit generally less hard - (scaling, large) -damroll - but with a decent chance of hitting as though with enhanced damage - ~1/3rd chance for 1.5x damage on every hit, could have this scale from lower to higher (1/4 - 1/2).
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KUNG FU STYLE: One of the basic defensive styles. The character in this style has learned something of the basics of Kung Fu without delving into any specific style. Gains: (constant) -ac.

HSING I CHUAN STYLE: This contrasts vigorous, strong attacks with otherwise smoothly flowing movements. Gains: (slowly scaling) -ac, (constant) +damroll, (constant) -hitroll.

PA KUA STYLE: This style focuses on spirals and spinning motions, making it deceptive to see where attacks are coming from. Gains: (slowly scaling) +hitroll, (constant) -ac, (scaling - ala spite or slower, auto) -hitroll on opponents.

TAI CHI CHUAN STYLE: This is the art generally regarded as meditative, now. It has smoothly flowing movements, combined with some leaping. Gains: (constant) +dex, (constant) -dam, (constant) +hit, (scaling) -ac.

*JEET KUN DO STYLE: The idea of this style is to identify your opponent's style, and by doing so his weaknesses, then adapt your own fighting style to best exploit those weaknesses and best defend against its strengths. Thus, a character in this style would begin battles taking a lot of damage and dealing little, but as each round goes by, they would deal more and more damage and take less and less. Take would start at 150% and go down by a modifier every round, bottoming out at 20 or 30%. Deal would start at 50% and go up by an equivalent (or at least similar) modifier every round, maxing out at 200%. This style would scale by increasing the amount of the modifier each level - start around 5%, and eventually get to 20% at avatar.
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SHURIKENJUTSU STYLE: This style teaches users to throw spikes and shuriken effectively. While in this style all of a character's throw attacks' damages would be increased by a (scaling) multiplier. I'd like to see throw become a fairly decent, damaging attack in this style, to the point of comparing, damage-wise with roundhouse, perhaps.

NINJITSU STYLE: The style of movement is taught to the spies and assassins in Japan. While this style is on, characters would be affected by sneak and hide (make it so hide doesn't vanish when the char moves). No combat bonuses or minuses.

KUK SOOL WON STYLE: High level users of this style learn acupressure and acupuncture techniques which allow them to heal at a more rapid rate. Characters in this style would have their hps regenerate at a faster-than-normal rate, yet still slower than being drunk & sleeping (as meditation). As Kuk Sool Won is actually a comprehensive fighting style, no combat minuses, but no combat plusses, either (we'd have to balance the regen speed, or just make it so it has approximately equivalent minuses to meditation). Obviously, doesn't work while drunk.
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STRICT WEAPON STYLES:
These can only be entered into while wielding at least one weapon, and if, at any point, the character removes all their weapons (or gets disarmed?), the style dissipates.

KENDO STYLE: A generalized weapons-focused style. Gains: (scaling) +ac, (constant) +hit, (constant) +dam.

*ITTO-RYU STYLE: This school of Kendo technically focuses on the idea of killing opponents on the first strike. However, as I dislike instakill skills, users of this style gain this instead: while using a slicing weapon, the practitioner in this art has a chance of doing double damage on some hits (with a neat send_to_char, preferably). The percentage that hit at 2x would start low (5%) and slowly scale up to 35% at avatar.

*IAIDO STYLE: This is the complementary style to kendo, focusing on attacks starting and ending with a sheathed sword. As a quick-draw style, would act somewhat like backstab, without the chance of insta-kill. Users of this style would have their first attack in a battle do <normal damage> x <kender backstab modifier>/8 (enough to do extra damage, but not enough to make it as dominant as backstab, that's the idea). No chance of insta-kill. However, they'd then have (scaling, fairly large) -damroll to offset the bonus gained by that. Would only work while using slicing weapons.

*KRABI KRABONG STYLE: This is the weapons fighting style that is the basis of Muay Thai fighting. As such, the character fighting in this style would take extra damage from every attack, and have a (scaling) +ac affect, in addition to the Muay Thai bonuses, drawbacks. They would gain an additional (slowly scaling) +hitroll/+damroll bonus (1/2 per 20 levels per weapon), beyond the hit/dam bonuses inherent in Muay Thai Style.
See Muay Thai for description of exemption from standard style dissipation.

*NITEN ICHI-RYU STYLE: This school of Kenjutsu focuses on fighting with two weapons (katana and wakizashi, specifically). Because of that, people fighting in this style would gain second attack while in the style (which would give humans in this style more attacks than any other race). The extra attack only works while wielding two slicing weapons. The style could also dissipate if two weapons weren't being wielded, as well, making disarm very nasty against people in this style.
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JUTTEJUTSU STYLE: This style focuses on fighting with defensive, sai-type weapons. As such, characters in this style would get moderate (slowly scaling, low - ala protection) damage reduction while in this style and (auto) disarm.

WUSHU STYLE: A highly graceful style practiced with a straight sword, this art resembles a dance when performed at its highest levels. This style would give a character in it (constant) +dex, and (scaling) -ac. As an additional bonus, if they're using a slashing weapon, it would give them a (slowly scaling) +hit/+dam bonus (I'm pushing 1/1 per 10 levels).

*FARI GATKA STYLE: An Indian sword and shield style, players would have to be using a shield to enter this style. Once in the style, they would get an extra autoattack (shield bash) at 1/4 or so of the human's normal attack damage (this could scale something like Bushidokan Style) as long as they wore the shield, and a (slowly scaling) -ac bonus.
In this case, the shield should count as a "wielded weapon."

MUTO-RYU STYLE: Another school of Kendo, this style focuses on the idea of using only enough force to disable an opponent, without hurting them more than necessary. Gain: (scaling) -ac, (auto) trip, (auto) disarm, should be able to disarm while unarmed in this style. Possibly some (scaling) damage reduction - up to 50%?.
This is technically a weapons style, but doesn't really depend on using that weapon. Best for this skill would be that you'd have to be wielding a weapon to enter the style, but wouldn't lose it if you got disarmed/removed the weapon (or just make it a nonweapon style in the first place).
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COMMENTS:
I realize there would be a lot of playtesting to get the balance on all these different styles correct. However, my main thrust for the next revision is to see what people think of the various styles, and which ones should be kept, especially. I want to keep a good balance between styles gotten early and late, as well as between strict nonweapon, nonweapon and weapon styles and between offensive and defensive styles. But, even under those restrictions, I feel there are too many to conveniently implement.

I'd also like suggestions as to what to do with the leftover skills/spells that humans have currently, but I feel don't really fit (namely, buddha finger, chin kang palm, and quivering palm - and, to a lesser extent, prayer and laughing buddha).

And, finally, I'd like some suggestions as to how fast the various styles' ac, hitroll and damroll modifiers should scale, and where they should start at... I haven't spent the time to figure out how comparable spells work, and how the non-stackable aspect of styles would affect that. (And, of course, for those I have suggested, tell me if those are way off in your opinions.)

As for play points, humans would have to realize that they cannot disarm or trip an opponent unless they're in specific styles (muto-ryu or juttejutsu for disarm, and aikido, judo, capoeira, arnis, sambo or muto-ryu for trip). Iron Monk would be the only "stackable" style (as it'd stay as it is... a spell, not a true style), so that people would actually use the other ones.

Thanks for reading this,

-EB

Thanks Xorex... I would've gotten it if netscape supported modern javascript conventions (well... the 4.x edition of netscape - I couldn't post because of it... too long to go into). But, yes... that is the most current (and most likely final) version of my human proposal.

The problem with humans is that, unlike the other races, they could be anything. The Dwarves are fighters. The Kender are thieves. Elves and Druids are magic-users. All of this makes sense. Unfortunately, Humans have been known to be all of these things. If we want to make the Humans more like a martial artist, then we might restrict their offensive magic. We might want to give them more fighting abilities. I agree that there should be some bonus for fighting barehanded, but make it a good one. I think that if martial artist is the main theme, then backstab should be an added skill. Ninjas are assassins, after all.
Do Kender really deserve to have backstab? How many Kender assassins are there? It just isn't in their nature. Increase the thieving powers of Kender. Allow them to sneak even with glowing and humming eq. Taint is more than enough power.
Remove backstab from Kender and give it to an altered Human race.

I agree that humans need a bonus on barehand fighting but don't take bs on kenders. They already suck even with bs. EB's human will be interesting, less tnl. ^,^

I think that if martial artist is the main theme, then backstab should be an added skill. Ninjas are assassins, after all.

My problem isn't necessarily with your suggestion, Stars, it's with the logic fueling it. What I quoted above points towards this. You make an assumption in the middle (all martial artists are ninjas) that simply isn't true. Thus, to fill in all the steps: Assassins should get backstab, Ninjas are assassins, Humans are martial artists, martial artists are ninjas (that one's the problem), so Humans should get backstab. (Not to mention that ninjas didn't really do many assassinations... they were used much more as information gatherers than assassins... spies, if you will.)

To address the other points in there, I would recommend you read the human proposal more closely - the barehand fighting bonus is on a par (or only very slightly below) of your average weapon hit/dam bonuses through level 50 at least; they have almost no magic to speak of (only for allowing the option of multiclassing); and they have a skill that works much like backstab.
If you take backstab from kender, they become an almost unusable race, as their other skills are all thief related and don't generally help them in combat. Now, I have no problems with revising kender (and I've seen some early outlines towards doing so), but we have to realize that for them to be even minimally effective in combat (and combat is the center of the "game" part of BR), they need combat skills. Getting no enhanced damage, and only 2nd and 3rd attack (leading them to be parried insanely), they become reliant on the damage taint can do to even attempt to kill an opponent. Perhaps this is better than being reliant on backstab, but you don't have to continually raise money to pay for backstab.

My suggestion was geared towards all martial artists, ninjas included. Yes, they are spies, but assassination is at least one of their practices. What was wrong with making a reference to this? Perhaps my comment made it seem as if I thought of them as only assassins. If this confused anyone, then I just clarified. However, I am afraid the assumption is on your part in suggesting that I think all martial artists are ninja. I hope you understand that by saying "martial artist", I am including all types. I only made mention of ninja specifically as an example.
You present some great ideas, Everybody. I hope that at least some of them are seriously considered. The only problem I see with your outline of Humans is that it is almost completely geared towards the Asian martial arts of the real world. While this would probably be ok, I still have a mild problem with the strict direction that Humans would be forced to take. Not all people see Humans like this. I have the greatest respect for anyone who has the determination and motivation to follow any martial art. But why must we limit Humans like this?
I suggest a more general list of fighter skills that include some of what EB proposes, but does not limit the potential for other abilites and inclinations of the varied human mind. A Human could be a knight, for instance, like those of eurpoean history. They could be thieves, which in my opinion would include some skills not entirely unlike that of ninja. I also think there should be some kind of focus on the magic-arts. Heck, humans could be just about anything. I know we cannot give them every ability, but a slightly more generalized skill list might be appropriate.
-Stars

I think the problem here is that Stars is trying to look at humans in Barren Realms in the same way that we look at humans in the real world. It just isn't that way, though. The races on BR are all rather narrowly defined. There is a very narrow concept of "kender," of "druid," of "elf," and of all the other races, including "human." A narrow definition for humans isn't meant to restrict people who want to play that race, it's just mean to give a clear, well-difined position for the race, just as we have for other races. If you really want to play a magic user, create an elf or a druid. If you want to be a traditional warrior, make a dwarf or avian. There is no need to open up these other options for a human, especially if we aren't going to do so for any other race.

For my earlier, rather dismissive tone, I apologize, but I still disagree that humans as a whole should get a backstab skill - most martial arts did not involve assassination as a means in their teachings.

I agree with Faustus' sentiments - our races are more like a class (with many options) than a definition of how people within it act. Too, I'd like to point out a difference in role-playing: just because your character is a monk (BR Human), doesn't mean that s/he has to be a typical monk - they could easily be interested in jousting, or necromancy, etc. (True, this applies more to a more RP focus than we have, but I think it still applies, somewhat.

Also, I think the mud as a whole is starting to have logic problems with our narrow definitions of race=class. I'd be interested to see any ideas people have towards redefining it (i.e. realizing not all elves are necessarily mages... etc.)

I would just like to restate my previous bravos for EB's style-based redesign of humans. I think the whole thing is very well conceived. I just took the time to really read the whole thing again, and some ideas and concerns popped to mind. In no particular order...

- I think that some of the minuses, particularly to some of the lower-level, lesser styles, are probably not needed. The fact that the styles are mutually exclusive and cannot be cast on others allows for them to be pretty good without affecting game balance unduly. Most likely no one will use the lesser styles at higher levels anyway, even if they do scale.

- I'd like to see the styles represented in the text output for combat somehow. That's not mentioned in the draft, but I think it would add something. It seems like one of the things that people have enjoyed about demons is the presentation, which is completely separate from the game play aspects. I don't know exactly how it would be best to present the style-based fighting, but it's something that would have to be sorted out before we could start designing it.

- Random idea -- I think it would be very interesting if each human guildmaster in the game had only a subset of the styles available to practice. Ideally, a character would have to visit nearly every guildmaster in the game to be sure of having all the styles available. Of course, the human guild in Valence would teach all styles.

- There should be one style that blocks avatar aliases. No, not so we can put it on mobs. This would be useful only in the arena. I have no idea what it would be called. Another style that allowed the practitioner to hit through mental barrier might not be a bad idea. Just a thought.

- I'm not sure where skill percentage figures into the style system, but it seems like it should be involved somehow.

What do you guys think?

In no particular response order: definitely on the text representation - it would very much add to the feeling of playing the character, adding to the enjoyment.
Agreed on skill percentages working in somehow (no real ideas as to how to do so).
Balance (in all the styles) is important - I generally made what I thought would be good accomodations towards not giving too much without some sort of drawback. If the drawback's too high, or it's still unbalanced (too good), it's number crunching and would hopefully be worked out in playtesting. I have no problems with any and all "hard" numbers being changed.
Additional style ideas are interesting... perhaps work them into some of the existing ones that're somewhat lacking? (to prevent having to code in entirely new styles that are so extremely focused)
As to the different guildmasters, I think it's a great idea, if it's doable (seems like it would take some moderately fancy code, both on the coding and building ends). Not every guildmaster would know everything about every martial art, just like senseis irl. And I think this is a case where mimicking reality would also add to gameplay.

my favorite race to play are humans. im tired of everyone saying that humans suck, THEY DONT. im two thumbs up on the new human proposal. humans rock now, and from what i can understand, after humans get revamped, NOONE will say humans suck. another thing, but, how close is this to even being considered or even implemented? i would very much appreciate knowing since i've been freaking out on this for a long time.

Getting positive responses from both Kiri and Slart implies that it's being considered, at the very least. As far as implemented... I presume they'll let us know.